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Relative hardness of ebonies
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4340		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:10 am ]
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I'm cutting fret slots in an ebony fingerboard today. The process seems to be much slower going than what I'm used to. I use a Stewmac slotting jig with a fretsaw.

This ebony is from India. After taking a break with a sore shoulder from all the sawing, I got to wondering if Indian ebony might be harder than the other ebonies used for fingerboards, e.g., African and Madagaskar.

Just curious, really. But the previous fingerboards I've cut (African and Madagaskar) sure did cut quicker. I don't think it's the saw -- it still seems to have its original set. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old and decripit. I really need to get one of them blades of Shane's for my table saw is what I need . . .

Best,

Michael
Author:  jfrench [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:18 am ]
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Michael,

Did you try waxing or lubricating the the blade? I sometimes draw the fretsaw blade through a block of paraffin wax if I want to speed things up.

Best wishes,
Joshua
Author:  RussellR [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:34 am ]
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Hi Michael

Is the Ebony a little wetter than what you usually use ?

This can make it real hardwork as the teeth clog.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:21 am ]
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Joshua, I didn't wax the blade -- never have, for that matter. But it isn't grabbing or binding in the slot, and it does pass through the wood smoothly. Just doesn't make much of a "dent" in it.

Russell, I don't think the wood is wetter. I don't have a moisture meter, so I can't say for sure, but it doesn't look or feel to be anything but dry. I bought it from Allied a while back, and it's been in my humidity-controlled shop for a while. Has parrafin on the ends too.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:50 am ]
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Sounds like the saw is dull. I remember Alan Carruth had a good description on how to sharpen these over on MIMF a while ago. My LMI fret saw was getting dull and hard to use (before I resigned and got a table saw set up) so I never did try to sharpen it. Perhaps we can get Alan to tell us again over here...Arnt38720.6605787037
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:06 am ]
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[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] I really need to get one of them blades of Shane's for my table saw is what I need . . .[/QUOTE]

We have enough blades now so I will put the order in on Friday. It will still be a while before we get them though....

Shane
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:41 am ]
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No clue about the ebonies, but since I've gotten my japanese pull saw for cutting fret slots, it's something that's actually quite enjoyable. Major change from dreading the task with the original StewMac handsaw, which is the only tool I've ever gotten from them that I'd label as utterly unfit for the purpose for which it was sold. Literally took me 45 minutes to slot an ebony fingerboard, whereas it now takes about 10, at a lesiurely pace. The one I've got has a disposable/replaceable blade, and I keep one specially for fingerboards. Works a treat, got it from Axminster in the UK. Just ask for kerf specs when/if you order one from somewhere, and you should be fine.

Still wish I had a tablesaw, though...
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:11 am ]
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I bought the LMI fretting English backsaw 2 years ago, it lasted maybe 3 or 4
refrets on ebony board and after that it wouldn't even cut through IER. It felt
exactly as you describe Michael. I kept the handle though… I agree with
Mattia, cutting fret slots with a Japanese saw changes everything and mine is
still good as good as new after many refrets and various jobs.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:13 am ]
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I resisted power fretting for years. One of the more stupid things I've done. Fretting on the table saw is simply a joy now. Perhaps the earlier hand experiences were valuable in that they enable me to really enjoy this (powered) step.

Michael, as to your question, I'm starting to believe that, indeed, there are ebonies, and then there are ebonies! I had to refret an electric neck--purchased from StewMac--and after enlarging the slots, I still had to use all my might to get those frets in. That stuff was like fretting agate. And if I might anticipate Russel's question, it was bone dry.
No way to know what species it was, but I'm sure even within a given species you'll find large variation.

Steve
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:25 am ]
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What is the source of the board? A lot of ebony from India gets here very
green. Regardless of whether that is the source of your cutting problem, I'd
suggest checking its moisture content and making sure it is well dried
before using it.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:40 am ]
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Howard,

This was one of about a dozen fingerboards I bought from Allied a couple weeks ago.

I was using a Crown brand backsaw, which sure looks like the same manufacturer of the LMI and Stewmac saws. Identical in appearance in every way, except for the Crown logo on the blade. I've liked to use it because it cuts a 0.025" kerf. Finally, after much frustration, I went ahead and tried my LMI fret saw, which I seldom use, and guess what? It cut through the ebony much faster. So, I guess I've worn out the Crown saw.

Mattia, I've noticed that LMI has recently begun carrying a Japanese saw for fretwork. I wonder if it might be similar to Axminsters . . .

Best,

Michael
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:12 am ]
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Michael: probably not really all that similar. The Axminster one I have is an unbacked saw, meaning I can't use it without a mitre box that tightly tracks the blade (I use StewMacs), and it requires an even, straight pull so as not to distort the blade while sawing. It works great for me, but that's down to the razor-sharp corsscut teeth and the comfort of a pull stroke. It's perhaps not the most user-friendly fret slotting saw, but it was the one Axminster had that had the right kerf!
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:05 pm ]
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Allied would kiln it before selling if it was green. Not to worry.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:51 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Michael McBroom]
I was using a Crown brand backsaw, which sure looks like the same manufacturer of the LMI and Stewmac saws. Identical in appearance in every way, except for the Crown logo on the blade.
[/QUOTE]

If I remember correctly, the fret saw I have from LMI is made by Eberle of Germany, I also think it says "Schwedenstahl" (Swedish steel) on it, but the handle is the LMI stanard type. I bought mine about 5 years ago, maybe they have changed since. By the way, the little "Blitz" saw (also from LMI) with replaceable blades works well too, the .6 mm blade leaves a slightly wider slot than the fret saw and fits their standard fret wire better.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:53 pm ]
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I recently got the L.M.I. set up and find the saw to be identicle to my english PAX

KiwiCraig
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